Public Forum Seanad Debate
Edmund Burke Theatre, Trinity College
30 September 2013
Members of the Oireachtas, Ladies and Gentlemen,
You are all very welcome to this public forum on the future of Seanad Éireann.
Trinity decided to hold this event not because we are taking sides on this issue, or because we elect members to the Seanad – but because we believe in providing a public forum on matters of national significance. That has been a major part of our mission over the past four centuries.
The motion of tonight’s debate is: “That Seanad Éireann should be abolished” – and we are holding the debate ahead of this Friday’s referendum when we go to the polls to decide between a unicameral or bicameral legislature for Ireland.
I’m delighted to see so many of our own students present this evening. On Wednesday, students will hold their own debate in the GMB, under the auspices of the Historical Society. For our fresher students, Friday’s may be the first vote of their adult life. It’s a particularly serious vote for the future of this country and I’m glad you’re taking it seriously.
I’m also delighted to see so many of our friends from the local community, such as Betty Ashe, and so many members of the general public, because we wanted this to be a public forum, and not just an event for our own staff and students. You are all very welcome here.
It’s appropriate that this public forum is being held in the Edmund Burke Theatre. Burke is one of our greatest graduates, and was a fearless advocate for justice on the world stage. His courageous example has often been referenced by our own politicians. In 1979 when Des O’Malley was interrupted in a debate in the Dáil, he responded by saying that ‘If Edmund Burke was interrupted as often as one is interrupted here, he would never have been an orator at all’.
One politician, in particular, was famous for quoting Burke, and that was the former Fine Gael leader, James Dillon. During the second inter-party government, when he was Minister for Agriculture, Dillon was asked about milk costings. His response closed down all discussion. He replied simply:
‘As I have not to hand a suitable quotation from Edmund Burke with which to reply, I shall not retort’.
Burke would have approved this debate tonight. He dedicated his life to public service, and we share those values. In Trinity we serve the public good through our commitment to education and research, and through wider engagement with the public. So it’s right that we provide opportunities for people to exchange ideas on matters of national importance.
I mentioned that Trinity has elected members to the Seanad – twenty-two different people in total since 1938. Before that, Trinity elected members to Dáil Éireann, and before 1921, to the British House of Commons, and before that again, from 1603 to 1801, Trinity elected MPs to the Irish House of Commons. So, in one sense, we are the oldest constituency in the country.
But we did not want this public forum to centre on the issue of Trinity representation. For this to be a truly national forum we wanted to look at all the issues. The question of university representation may be discussed tonight but we didn’t want to make it the sole focus - nor to appear to take a particular side on the question. In 1979 a referendum was passed by 92% supporting a widening of the franchise to all graduates, and we have always wished to see that decision brought into law.
It may also seem strange that there are no Trinity senators on the panel tonight, or members of the Trinity staff. That was a deliberate decision. We invited our guests tonight promising that this would be a public forum, facilitated by Trinity, but without Trinity taking a public side. We didn’t want to create the impression of favouring one side over the other by inviting speakers from within this university.
That said, I welcome our Trinity senators who are attending this event and I look forward to their contributions from the floor, as indeed I look forward to contributions from all gathered here tonight.
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Friday’s vote is on an issue of fundamental importance to the way our country is run. It’s our democratic right and privilege to be consulted on this issue. Happily, unlike James Dillon and the milk costings, I do have to hand a suitable Burke quotation, which gets across our civic duty. Burke said:
“Society is indeed a contract. It is a partnership in all science; a partnership in all art; a partnership in every virtue, and in all perfection. As the ends of such a partnership cannot be obtained in many generations, it becomes a partnership not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.”
All sides believe that the outcome of Friday’s vote will indeed influence the kind of society we live in and which our children will live in.
We owe it to ourselves and to society to be fully informed and to weigh up all consequences before we decide how to vote on a matter of such fundamental importance. Tonight is Trinity’s contribution to that process. I look forward to a stimulating debate which will inform, provoke, challenge, and perhaps even change minds.
Again the motion is : “That Seanad Éireann should be abolished”. Each speaker will make an address of eight minutes, after which we will open to the floor.
Our speakers supporting the motion that Seanad Éireann should be abolished are:
- Eoghan Murphy, TD, Fine Gael;
- Alex White, TD, Minister of State and Labour Party Director of Elections for the Seanad Referendum;
- Matt Carthy, Sinn Féin councillor and candidate in the forthcoming European elections;
- Dr Kevin Rafter, lecturer in DCU representing One House, an independent civil society group calling for a Yes vote.
And our speakers against the motion that Seanad Eireann should be abolished are:
- Michael McDowell, SC, former Tánaiste, representing Democracy Matters, an independent civil society group calling for a No vote;
- Lucinda Creighton, Fine Gael TD and Reform Alliance;
- Jim O’Callaghan, senior counsel, Fianna Fáil Councillor,and Deputy Director of Elections for Fianna Fáil
- Senator Katherine Zappone, co-author of the Seanad Reform Bill 2013.
To open the debate I now call on the first speaker to propose motion for abolition of Seanad Éireann Matt Carthy.
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